Calling all lefties

by Jan Palach Fri Dec 29, 2006 11:54

... by not having kids.

Let's be realistic here, for every one leftie who doesn't fly Ryanair and there are a whole host of better reasons than environmental ones not to fly Ryanair, there are ten head in the sand mainstreamers who will. A perfect example of how one individual cutting back doesn't make a smidge of a difference.

Ok, you have one more sanctimonius person but at the end of the day, that doesn't help.

Lose the TV? Eh, I'm sorry but I happen to think TV has been on the whole a good thing, why don't ya give out about advertisements in the magazines you're pimping there mate, aren't they just as destructive and mind washing as all others.

Certainly, it seems you've bought the message hook, line and sinker.

The Stern Report is not a wake-up call, the alarm clock buzzed a long time ago and the pillow is firmly over the head.

by cropbeye - Society of Friends Sun Dec 31, 2006 18:06 cropbeye at yahoo dot com Munster

Even if a small number of people show that an alternative lifestyle is possible

then it becmomes legitimised. Not everyone will adopt all the aspects of the lifestyle

but can be influenced by it and gradually it builds up to the argument that spending all

our time working contributing to the profits of magor corporations is self defeating.

For example a person currently flying from Ireland to Britain 8 times a year might be

able to reduce this to 5 times a year. Similarly if a number of people throw out their TVs and

occassionaly want to watch a worthwhile programe they can watch it on the internet.

People should have the comfort of choosing to furnish their houses as they deem fit

in other words the TV would not be a compulsary piece of funrniture and this should be respected.

by Jasper Tue Jan 02, 2007 11:21

The main difference between the Stern Report and other global warming studies is that it quantifies how much it costs to do nothing and how much it would cost to adapt to to global warming when everything goes t*its-up. It's not a wake-up call but putting it into the terms that concern most people, i.e. monetary terms.

Serious changes need to be made....we have until 2030 to cut our CO2 emissions in Ireland by about 90%. But let's be honest...that's not gonna happen. There isn't a politician in Ireland that would lead a government to making the choices that need to be made in order to meet the targets.

If you've read "Heat: How To Stop The Planet Burning" by Geroge Monbiot there's a whole raft of ways and means for cutting the emissions. But they're mostly quixotic given the way the world is run.

by gníomhaí Tue Jan 02, 2007 16:42

Jan Palach- of course the Stern Report is just saying what has already been said long ago. I'm not that naive to think this report is a wake-up call, but economists have always been the last to deny global climate change is happening. They've been too obsessed with GDP and balance of payment figures....
Now even economists can't deny that global warming is a fact. Environmentalists have known for many years now. I'm not in anyway saying that I agree with the report either- it doesn't go far enough. Huge reductions are required- not 20%, not 50% but 90% and more......

What the hell is on the tv that's so good?- a handful of documentaries and news.....Much better to visit people, read, play boardgames, go to the cinema etc.

Yeah, of course it'll only make a minor impact if a few of us refuse to travel by air and make the other adjustments I've suggested, but what's the alternative? do as everyone else- deny it or carry on as normal? Slit our throats? Sure, have less/no kids - I agree there. There's going to be some serious death and destruction in the coming decades - a combination of global climate change and an imminent energy crisis will see to that- nature (human induced) will probably cull a sizeable proportion of the planet's population, but somehow we have to carry on, try somehow to create a better world- the ideas are all out there - and if we act radically NOW we can still prevent the worst of climate change occurring. (yeah, I'm pretty pessemistic also -I don't know how realistic it is to believe this will happen- but hey, there's a good chance the world economy will collapse in time due to climate chaos.

by Jan Palach Wed Jan 03, 2007 11:32

But you haven't suggested acting radically in any way at all.

by Jasper Wed Jan 03, 2007 12:20

The radical steps will nevver be taken. Industry needs to be tackled first and foremost and the government, any government, is unwilling to do that. Look at the budget....despite touting the budget as a green one, they still set aside €270 million to pay for carbon credits so that we could keep on producing what we do and even more but just by up the excess carbon allowances of others. I'm not sure that's not more tokenism (in terms of grants for renewable stuff etc) than hedging your bets.

At the moment, all we have is the 'Power Of One' to go on and try and do what we can as individuals.

by gníomhaí Mon Jan 08, 2007 16:05

Jan Palach- re radical action- well, as I said, it's limited what individuals can do: above all else live much more modestly with fewer gadgets, gear and stuff. Yes by Western standards this is radical. You can't even give up your tv!!!! Try giving up your tv, car, mortgage, computer, house in Spain/Bulgaria etc. Not easy for most people to do. By Celtic Tiger standards that's radical...... Travel less, grow your own food,buy local if possible. These are (unfortunately) by the standards of today radical since the vast majority buy their processed food from multinational supermarkets, travel once a year (at least) abroad, have a car, a mortgage, a computer and a tv.

As regards radical action by government -well of course I know the possibility of this happening is somewhere between zilch and zero but hey. Here's what I say needs to be done: halt economic growth, halt construction of needless motorways, massive expenditure on public transport and renewable energy, downsize and decentralize everything from hospitals to governement to economies. Introduce the Tobin Tax (tax on speculative transactions), raise corporation tax (to fund these programmes- hits the wealthy, not the poor) become more self-sufficient and in short ,start reversing globalisation to welcome increased 'localisation' .
There's no point in continuing with our obsession with economic growth (growth=increased energy use=squandering of the earth's resources=increased greenhouse gases=death and destruction), globalisation will have to come to a halt (increased trade, travel etc=unsustainable) and WHETHER WE LIKE IT OR NOT we're going to have to live a lot more modestly and simpler (this does NOT have to mean living in misery), because if we don't make these changes, nature will impose it on us......

That radical enough for ya?!!!!!